[NUUG kart] Possible copyright infringements from user located in Kristiansand, Norway

Erling Thingelstad ethingelstad at gmail.com
Fri Nov 19 09:39:45 CET 2010

I'm afraid I have to agree with Frode Roxrud Gill in his doubts.

When I started to add a few things to OSM about a year ago, I was very happy
to see that stallis had added so much. In fact, he had added so much detail
that I wrote him in OpenStreetMap and asked if he really had collected all
this data in a legal way. He answered that he had been driving a lot and had
also been a taxi driver, and had a lot of traces. I was in doubt, but
decided to accept his explanation. Now that Frode has had the same thoughts
as me, I am glad he raised the question here.

I had a look around my local area and found some odd things:

   - Way 38810231 goes from Odderhei Terrasse and is a combined driveway for
   one house and a bicycle road to a bus stop in Dvergsnesveien. When the
   bicycle road gets down to Dvergsnesveien it is blocked by a guardrail. A
   small car could possibly pass through on the right side and over the
   sidewalk, but it is obvious that you are not meant to drive here.

   - Way 38810230 does not exist at all. According to my GPS, there's a 2
   meter cliff here at the side of Dvergsnesveien.

   - I inserted the way 38785737 where Stallis had entered the two roads
   Korsvikhaven and Korsvikgrenda as a normal T crossing, but there is (for at
   least ten years) a short bicycle road between the two roads that is blocked
   for cars. I believe (but I am not sure) that Google maps had a T crossing
   here a year ago also, but Google have fixed it now.

   - The set of service ways starting with way 38908617 and going north and
   east of there is a skidpan training area that is not public, but only
   available for scheduled sessions. Google Maps also shows roads here. He can
   of course have had a session there, so it might be OK. To his defense, he
   has also added way 61350739 which is not shown in Google maps. I don't know
   the place well enough to say what this way is.

So just as Frode says, it would be best for all parts if stallis has
acquired his data in a proper way, but an investigation seems to be

Best regards,
Erling Thingelstad

On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 2:48 PM, Frode Roxrud Gill <frodegill at gmail.com>wrote:

Note: Cc to the Norwegian Openstreetmap mailinglist
> The user "demivee", formerly known as "stallis", has mapped almost the
> entire Kristiansand area and its surroundings. I would be very happy
> for, and impressed by, this user if it turns out all edits are based
> on free data, but I have a feeling this is not the case.
> At two places in Songdalen, a county immediately west of Kristiansand,
> common available maps ( http://openstreetmap.org/ ,
> http://kart.gulesider.no/ , http://maps.google.com/ and
> http://www.finn.no/kart ) have differed from reality and eachother,
> and in both cases openstreetmap.org, with data provided by
> stallis/demivee, has matched Google Maps and not reality. The places
> mentioned are Koleknibvegen <URL:
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=58.12998&lon=7.86443&zoom=17&layers=M
> > (where Google Maps until a few weeks ago had a Y-shaped
> never-existed road) and Fiolvegen <URL:
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=58.171913&lon=7.828794&zoom=18&layers=M
> > (where Google Maps still insists that Fiolvegen extends to Rv461
> Songdalsvegen. It doesn't). I have personally corrected these places
> (<URL: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/6262702 > and
> <URL: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/6262577 >, based
> on <URL: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/frodegill/traces/856349 >
> and <URL: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/frodegill/traces/856350 >)
> I have no hard evidence, but these two locations, together with the
> fact that the user has no public GPS Traces (even after kindly asked
> to provide them), created lots of small roads (we usually don't map
> single-house driveways), a sudden usernamechange after his username
> was revealed in a thread on the Norwegian Openstreetmap mailinglist
> (started by me, in Norwegian. <URL:
> http://lists.nuug.no/pipermail/kart/2010-October/002049.html >, makes
> me believe his edits are based on data from Google Maps or their
> upstream provider.
> To remove any doubt that the data in openstreetmap are free, I would
> ask you investigate the user "demivee"/"stallis" and what he has
> mapped in the Kristiansand area. For the state of the map in the
> Kristiansand area, I would be very glad if my gut feeling is wrong..
>  --
> Frode Roxrud Gill
> _______________________________________________
> kart mailing list
> kart at nuug.no
> http://lists.nuug.no/mailman/listinfo/kart
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