Bare for sikkerhets skyld: Jeg antar det er korrekt å si at orddelingsreglene har samme lisens som resten av ordlistene, altså «GNU GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE, Version 2, June 1991»?
Jeg har prøvd å finne informasjon i no.speling.org sin SVN, men finner ingenting som nevner orddeling eksplisitt. Dette er vel overtatt fra Kleveland i sin tid, noen som husker/vet?
Mvh Axel Bojer
-------- Opprinnelig melding -------- Emne: [Scribus 0005322]: Hyphenation patterns distributed without license and copyright information Dato: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 20:40:58 +0100 Fra: Mantis Bug Tracker scribus@scribus.net Til: axelb@skolelinux.no
A NOTE has been added to this issue. ====================================================================== http://bugs.scribus.net/view.php?id=5322 ====================================================================== Reported By: malex Assigned To: plinnell ====================================================================== Project: Scribus Issue ID: 5322 Category: Documentation Reproducibility: always Severity: minor Priority: normal Status: assigned ====================================================================== Date Submitted: 2007-02-09 17:47 CET Last Modified: 2012-01-27 20:37 CET ====================================================================== Summary: Hyphenation patterns distributed without license and copyright information Description: See Debian bug report 410093 at http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=410093.
Many hyphenation patterns are distributed without copyright and license information. It seems that most patterns are copied from the Openoffice.org sources, where these files are now removed.
The various README's are supposed to have the copyright information, but they don't have it. If the files are derived from the TeX/LaTeX hyphenation patterns, then the LPPL requires some information to be included in the derived work as well.
- README_ca_ES.txt: Original work, or derived from LPPL?
- README_cs_CZ.txt: Copied from the myspell directory, doesn't say anything about the hyphenation patterns, just the wordlist and affix files.
- README_cy_GB.txt: Not clear, if "the dictionaries" cover the hyphenation patterns as well.
- README_da_DK.txt: No license/copyright at all.
- README_de_DE.txt: No license/copyright for the hyphenation patterns, just for the not shipped dictionaries.
- README_en_EN.txt: No license/copyright for the hyphenation patterns, just for the not shipped dictionaries.
- README_en_GB.txt: No license/copyright for the hyphenation patterns, just for the not shipped dictionaries.
- README_es_ES.txt: No license/copyright for the hyphenation patterns, just for the not shipped dictionaries.
- README_fi_FI.txt: Unclear, if derived from the TeX/LaTeX work; if yes, the LPPL needs to be honored.
- README_hu_HU.txt: No license/copyright for the hyphenation patterns, just for the not shipped dictionaries.
- README_is_IS.txt: Violates LPPL 6d.
- README_lt_LT.txt: Origin of the work is unclear; may violate LPPL.
- README_no_NO.txt: No license/copyright for the hyphenation patterns, just for the not shipped dictionaries.
- README_pl_PL.txt: No license/copyright for the hyphenation patterns, just for the not shipped dictionaries. The README reads "This dictionary".
- README_pt_BR.txt: No license/copyright for the hyphenation patterns, just for the not shipped dictionaries.
- README_pt_PT.txt: No license/copyright for the hyphenation patterns, just for the not shipped dictionaries.
- README_ru_RU_0.txt: Russian text; needs to be checked.
- README_sk_SK.txt: No license/copyright for the hyphenation patterns, just for the not shipped dictionaries.
- README_sl_SI.txt: No license/copyright for the hyphenation patterns, just for the not shipped dictionaries.
- README_sv_SE.txt: No copyright/license at all.
- README_uk_UA.txt: No license/copyright for the hyphenation patterns, just for the not shipped dictionaries.
All hyphenation patterns with missing and unclear license information should be removed.
Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Oleksandr Moskalenko malex@debian.org: Bug#410079; Package scribus. Full text and rfc822 format available. Acknowledgement sent to Sune Vuorela debian@pusling.com: Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Oleksandr Moskalenko malex@debian.org. Full text and rfc822 format available.
Message received at 410079@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):
From: Sune Vuorela debian@pusling.com To: Matthias Klose doko@cs.tu-berlin.de, 410079@bugs.debian.org Subject: Re: Bug#410079: hyphenation patterns distributed without license and copyright Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 01:07:02 +0100
[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]
On Wednesday 07 February 2007, Matthias Klose wrote:
The various README's are supposed to have the copyright information, but they don't have it. If the files are derived from the TeX/LaTeX hyphenation patterns, then the LPPL requires some information to be included in the derived work as well.
- README_da_DK.txt: No license/copyright at all.
I asked the danish people (to whom I occasionally send some data) about this. The hyphenation and the README file does nto seem to have anything to do with each others.
The README is from the dsdo - den store danske ordliste (da.speling.org). The dsdo is basically a word list for spell checking, but it does also contain some hyphenation information for specific words, but no general information about hyphenation rules. So the dsdo is probably not the base for the hyph_da.dic file.
Their guess was that the hyph_da.dic file is coming frome some LaTeX something.
/Sune
Additional Information: Same problem exists for 1.2.5 release - see http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=410079 ====================================================================== Relationships ID Summary ---------------------------------------------------------------------- related to 0002527 Allow switching between traditional / s... related to 0005328 new german hyphenation files available parent of 0005324 LPPL compliant README for PL hyphenatio... parent of 0005325 Answer to 0005322: Danish Hyphenation p... child of 0003828 Metabug: Hyphenation ======================================================================
---------------------------------------------------------------------- (0015163) cbradney (administrator) - 07-Feb-09 18:25 http://bugs.scribus.net/view.php?id=5322#c15163 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Some of those files clearly state the affix files are covered by the licences.. eg en_EN: glish wordlist created by Kevin Atkinson for Pspell and Aspell and thus is covered by his original LGPL license. The affix file is a heavily modified version of the original english.aff file which was released as part of Geoff Kuenning's Ispell and as such is covered by his BSD license.
---------------------------------------------------------------------- (0015164) cbradney (administrator) - 07-Feb-09 18:27 http://bugs.scribus.net/view.php?id=5322#c15164 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The affix file is a modified version of the czech.aff file and is licensed under the terms of the GNU GPL2 as published by the Free Software Foundation.
Thanks to authors for there wonderful work.
The modifications to the affix file and wordlist to make it work with Myspell are (c) 2002 Libor Rejc (rejc@mail.cz) and are also covered by the GPL version 2 license.
---------------------------------------------------------------------- (0015168) mhanski (developer) - 07-Feb-09 21:13 http://bugs.scribus.net/view.php?id=5322#c15168 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- <quoting> README_pl_PL.txt: No license/copyright for the hyphenation patterns, just for the not shipped dictionaries. The README reads "This dictionary". </quoting>
the Polish hyphenation file currently in use was grabbed from the OOorg repository and submitted with http://bugs.scribus.net/view.php?id=1129, its licence is GNU LGPL, as stated in the README_pl_PL.txt in both 1.3.3.* and 1.3.4 branches (Scribus/scribus/dicts/)and in this original zip file: http://ftp.services.openoffice.org/pub/OpenOffice.org/contrib/dictionaries/h...
This README file states:
"Hyphenation dictionary ----------------------
Language: Polish (pl PL). Origin: Based on the TeX hyphenation tables License: GNU LGPL license. Author: conversion and corrects author is Artur Polaczynski artiip@gmail.com
HYPH pl PL hyph_pl_PL"
<quoting> It seems that most patterns are copied from the Openoffice.org sources, where these files are now removed. </qouting>
These files have been moved to: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Dictionaries
so it's just a matter of checking the relevant files there and, if in doubt, contacting their authors for more information.
---------------------------------------------------------------------- (0015169) malex (administrator) - 07-Feb-09 20:21 http://bugs.scribus.net/view.php?id=5322#c15169 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- mhanski,
As long as it's know where those files came from.
---------------------------------------------------------------------- (0015170) christoph_s (administrator) - 07-Feb-09 20:27 http://bugs.scribus.net/view.php?id=5322#c15170 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Absolutely agree. It's illegal to strip down a TeX hyphenation file under the LPPL and re-release it under a different licence.
---------------------------------------------------------------------- (0015171) mhanski (developer) - 07-Feb-09 20:52 http://bugs.scribus.net/view.php?id=5322#c15171 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- http://ftp.services.openoffice.org/pub/OpenOffice.org/contrib/dictionaries/d...
The German README from the same source reads:
Hyphenation dictionary ----------------------
Language: German (de DE). Origin: Based on the TeX hyphenation tables License: GNU LGPL license. Author: conversion author is Marco Huggenbergermarco@by-night.ch
Please note, this dictionary is based on syllable matching patterns and thus should be suitable under other variations of German
HYPH de DE hyph_de_DE HYPH de CH hyph_de_CH
---------------------------------------------------------------------- (0015172) christoph_s (administrator) - 07-Feb-09 20:58 http://bugs.scribus.net/view.php?id=5322#c15172 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- mhanski, this is not the file distributed with Scribus, isn't it?
---------------------------------------------------------------------- (0015173) christoph_s (administrator) - 07-Feb-09 21:03 http://bugs.scribus.net/view.php?id=5322#c15173 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Correcting myself. It is the same file. The licence file in Scribus is wrong, it's the one for the spellchecker.
---------------------------------------------------------------------- (0015174) mhanski (developer) - 07-Feb-09 21:07 http://bugs.scribus.net/view.php?id=5322#c15174 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Franz, where does the German hyphenation file come from, is it this one? http://ftp.services.openoffice.org/pub/OpenOffice.org/contrib/dictionaries/h...
---------------------------------------------------------------------- (0015176) mhanski (developer) - 07-Feb-09 22:06 http://bugs.scribus.net/view.php?id=5322#c15176 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- malex, I know where the Polish file comes from, since this was me who grabbed it from OOrg and submitted with http://bugs.scribus.net/view.php?id=1129
BTW, the same file (the author) with its LGPL licence is good enough for Debian, read e.g.: http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/o/openoffice.org-hyphenation...
As for the other hyphenation files, we should simply add their proper licences _and_ files, if there is any doubt about their origin, from http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Dictionaries
---------------------------------------------------------------------- (0015177) christoph_s (administrator) - 07-Feb-09 22:08 http://bugs.scribus.net/view.php?id=5322#c15177 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- mhanski: these are exactly the same files OO.o offers :(
---------------------------------------------------------------------- (0015178) fschmid (administrator) - 07-Feb-09 22:26 http://bugs.scribus.net/view.php?id=5322#c15178 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- When i introduced the hyphenation into scribus i took all the .dict files out of OpenOffice together with the README files. I've used not other source than OpenOffice.
---------------------------------------------------------------------- (0015181) Ludi (reporter) - 07-Feb-09 22:53 http://bugs.scribus.net/view.php?id=5322#c15181 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From http://ftp.services.openoffice.org/pub/OpenOffice.org/contrib/dictionaries/h...:
README_hyph_pt_BR.txt
Hyphenation dictionary ----------------------
Language: Portuguese Brazil (pt BR). Origin: Based on the TeX hyphenation tables by Pedro J. de Rezende rezende@dcc.unicamp.br (Brazilian) and tuned up by J.Joao Dias Almeida jj@di.uminho.pt License: GNU GPL license. Author: conversion author is Paulo Morgado paulo.morgado@vizzavi.pt
Then, googling a little bit I got this: http://www.tex.ac.uk/tex-archive/language/portuguese.zip
origin
I have compiled a Portuguese hyphenation table for TeX. It turned out to be a rather short table (compared to the one for English) because Portuguese has very concise rules for hyphenation.
I'd like to make this table public and freely distributed. Even included in the distribution tapes. I have extensively tested it (with patgen) and haven't found any erroneous hyphenation. It does miss some hyphens but they are very very few. It certainly does not hyphenate a word beyond an accent or a cedilla, but that's the way TeX handles hyphenation of words with intervening macros (cf. Appendix H of The TeXbook).
Pedro J. de Rezende rezende@corwin.ccs.northeastern.edu
College of Computer Science (617) 437-2078 Northeastern University 360 Huntington Avenue
pt8hyph.tex ----------------------------------------------------------------- % IMPORTANT NOTICE: % % This program can be redistributed and/or modified under the terms % of the LaTeX Project Public License Distributed from CTAN % archives in directory macros/latex/base/lppl.txt; either % version 1 of the License, or any later version. % ----------------------------------------------------------------- % Remember! If you *must* change it, then call the resulting file % something else and attach your name to your *documented* changes. % ======================================================================
---------------------------------------------------------------------- (0015183) mhanski (developer) - 07-Feb-10 00:40 http://bugs.scribus.net/view.php?id=5322#c15183 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- malex, fschmid, I've searched a little for possible solutions. Results:
The same user who'd filed the related Debian bug (Matthias Klose) requested information about the possible licence violations on the OpenOffice Lingucomponent mailing list and got an answer from the leader of the Polish NLC project:
http://lingucomponent.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?listName=dev&msgNo...
In short: although "the LPPL explicitely allows derived work, even under a different license", the current README file of the Pl (and many others) hyphenation patterns didn't contain all the information required. It has been swiftly corrected by the Polish guy, please see this corrected README and add it "as is" to the Scribus sources (ISO-8859-2 encoded):
http://pl.openoffice.org/pliki/README_hyph_pl_PL.txt
As for the other languages in question, we could either request the same corrections from the other NLC leaders of the OpenOffice Lingucomponent project, or use this README as a template and make our own README files -- at least the Portuguese one should be easy to make:)
---------------------------------------------------------------------- (0015184) christoph_s (administrator) - 07-Feb-10 00:44 http://bugs.scribus.net/view.php?id=5322#c15184 ----------------------------------------------------------------------
As for the other languages in question, we could either request the same
corrections from the other NLC leaders of the OpenOffice Lingucomponent project, or use this README as a template and make our own README files -- at least the Portuguese one should be easy to make:)
It's even possible to strip the tex files from unnecessary information.
And mahanski is right. Using another licence is ok, if §§ 6 and 10 of the LPPL are honoured.
---------------------------------------------------------------------- (0015194) miles (reporter) - 07-Feb-10 15:00 http://bugs.scribus.net/view.php?id=5322#c15194 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Well, for Slovenian (sl or sl-SI) the license for both spell-check dictionary and hyphenation was GPL but was changed by permission of the authors to dual GPL/LGPL. You can get the latest files, issued under this license, from this OpenOffice.org issue 70621 attached on January 26. 2007: http://porting.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=70621
Bye, m.
---------------------------------------------------------------------- (0015196) axelb (reporter) - 07-Feb-10 18:26 http://bugs.scribus.net/view.php?id=5322#c15196 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The norwegian dictionaries are here: http://alioth.debian.org/frs/?group_id=30577
http://alioth.debian.org/frs/download.php/1601/spell-norwegian-2.0.8.tar.gz is the source file, and the file COPYING has the GPL license as content.
---------------------------------------------------------------------- (0015388) plinnell (administrator) - 07-Feb-24 22:05 http://bugs.scribus.net/view.php?id=5322#c15388 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Meta bug for this issue in OO.org: http://lingucomponent.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=74283
Not all of the hyphenation dictionary licenses are incorrect.
---------------------------------------------------------------------- (0015392) subik (manager) - 07-Feb-25 09:23 http://bugs.scribus.net/view.php?id=5322#c15392 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I don't see any issues with Czech hyphen.
Well, I don't know the exact development cycle of the Cz dicts but we are lucky here. CsTeX dict is under GPL2, Czech Ispell GPL, and Cz OOo myspel (we're using this one) is under GPL too.
---------------------------------------------------------------------- (0015393) mhanski (developer) - 07-Feb-25 12:31 http://bugs.scribus.net/view.php?id=5322#c15393 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- subik: there is no issue with Czech hyphenation, this is about the missing _licence_ of the Czech _hyphenation_ patterns. The current README_cs_CZ.txt is an obvious mistake, since it's related to spelling dictionaries (Scribus doesn't do spellchecking so far) and not to hyphenation patterns. You could simply remove it and add the README_hyph_cs_CZ.txt included in this zip archive:
http://ftp.services.openoffice.org/pub/OpenOffice.org/contrib/dictionaries/h...
---------------------------------------------------------------------- (0015395) subik (manager) - 07-Feb-25 13:02 http://bugs.scribus.net/view.php?id=5322#c15395 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- should be done now
---------------------------------------------------------------------- (0027606) malex (administrator) - 12-Jan-27 20:37 http://bugs.scribus.net/view.php?id=5322#c27606 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- It's been a while. I've seen a flurry of openoffice.org bug reports closing this issue. I wonder if this is actually done.
Issue History Date Modified Username Field Change
====================================================================== 07-Feb-09 17:47 malex New Issue
07-Feb-09 17:48 malex Relationship added child of 0003828 07-Feb-09 18:21 christoph_s Status new => confirmed 07-Feb-09 18:25 cbradney Note Added: 0015163
07-Feb-09 18:27 cbradney Note Added: 0015164
07-Feb-09 19:53 cbradney Status confirmed => assigned 07-Feb-09 19:53 cbradney Assigned To => plinnell
07-Feb-09 20:07 mhanski Note Added: 0015168
07-Feb-09 20:21 malex Note Added: 0015169
07-Feb-09 20:27 christoph_s Note Added: 0015170
07-Feb-09 20:52 mhanski Note Added: 0015171
07-Feb-09 20:58 christoph_s Note Added: 0015172
07-Feb-09 21:03 christoph_s Note Added: 0015173
07-Feb-09 21:06 mhanski Note Added: 0015174
07-Feb-09 21:07 mhanski Note Edited: 0015174
07-Feb-09 21:11 mhanski Note Added: 0015175
07-Feb-09 21:11 mhanski Note Deleted: 0015175
07-Feb-09 21:13 mhanski Note Edited: 0015168
07-Feb-09 21:13 mhanski Note Edited: 0015168
07-Feb-09 22:03 mhanski Note Added: 0015176
07-Feb-09 22:06 mhanski Note Edited: 0015176
07-Feb-09 22:08 christoph_s Note Added: 0015177
07-Feb-09 22:26 fschmid Note Added: 0015178
07-Feb-09 22:51 Ludi Note Added: 0015181
07-Feb-09 22:53 Ludi Note Edited: 0015181
07-Feb-09 22:53 Ludi Note Edited: 0015181
07-Feb-09 23:01 christoph_s Relationship added related to 0002527 07-Feb-10 00:05 mhanski Note Added: 0015182
07-Feb-10 00:06 mhanski Note Deleted: 0015182
07-Feb-10 00:34 mhanski Note Added: 0015183
07-Feb-10 00:36 mhanski Note Edited: 0015183
07-Feb-10 00:40 mhanski Note Edited: 0015183
07-Feb-10 00:44 christoph_s Note Added: 0015184
07-Feb-10 10:27 mhanski Relationship added parent of 0005324 07-Feb-10 12:19 mhanski Relationship added parent of 0005325 07-Feb-10 12:30 mhanski Note Added: 0015191
07-Feb-10 12:30 mhanski Note Deleted: 0015191
07-Feb-10 12:33 mhanski Note Added: 0015192
07-Feb-10 12:34 mhanski Note Deleted: 0015192
07-Feb-10 15:00 miles Note Added: 0015194
07-Feb-10 18:26 axelb Note Added: 0015196
07-Feb-11 22:21 mhanski Relationship added related to 0005328 07-Feb-24 22:05 plinnell Note Added: 0015388
07-Feb-24 22:20 plinnell Priority high => normal
07-Feb-24 22:20 plinnell Severity major => minor
07-Feb-24 22:20 plinnell Category General => Documentation 07-Feb-25 09:23 subik Note Added: 0015392
07-Feb-25 12:31 mhanski Note Added: 0015393
07-Feb-25 13:02 subik Note Added: 0015395
12-Jan-27 20:37 malex Note Added: 0027606
======================================================================
fr. den 27. 01. 2012 klokka 21.40 (+0100) skreiv Axel Bojer:
Bare for sikkerhets skyld: Jeg antar det er korrekt å si at orddelingsreglene har samme lisens som resten av ordlistene, altså «GNU GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE, Version 2, June 1991»?
Jeg har prøvd å finne informasjon i no.speling.org sin SVN, men finner ingenting som nevner orddeling eksplisitt. Dette er vel overtatt fra Kleveland i sin tid, noen som husker/vet?
Eg veit ikkje kva filer det er snakk om (og fann ingen nettsider som verka eg kunne lasta dei ned frå), men viss dei er basert på Kleveland/Selberg si orddelingsliste, er det alt eit grovt brot på lisensvilkåra. Den seier nemlig "http://ftp.fagskolen.gjovik.no/pub/tex-archive/language/hyphenation/nohyph/n...":
% Copyright (C) 2004, 2005 Rune Kleveland, Ole Michael Selberg. % Copying and distribution of this file, with or without modification, % are permitted in any medium without royalty provided the copyright % notice and this notice are preserved.
Hei!
Vet ikke om denne e-posten når fram til Rune Kleveland, Ole Michael Selberg, Torstein Dybdahl e.a. med tilknytning til orddelingsfilene på norsk. Men om så er, kan mottaker gi beskjed om forholdet nedenfor (lisens for ordlistene som del av no.spelig.org/myspell).
Den 29. jan. 2012 16:48, skrev Karl Ove Hufthammer:
fr. den 27. 01. 2012 klokka 21.40 (+0100) skreiv Axel Bojer:
Bare for sikkerhets skyld: Jeg antar det er korrekt å si at orddelingsreglene har samme lisens som resten av ordlistene, altså «GNU GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE, Version 2, June 1991»?
Jeg har prøvd å finne informasjon i no.speling.org sin SVN, men finner ingenting som nevner orddeling eksplisitt. Dette er vel overtatt fra Kleveland i sin tid, noen som husker/vet?
Eg veit ikkje kva filer det er snakk om (og fann ingen nettsider som verka eg kunne lasta dei ned frå),
Ja, jeg ser at både no.speling.org og alioth for øyeblikket er nede :-(
men viss dei er basert på Kleveland/Selberg si orddelingsliste, er det alt eit grovt brot på lisensvilkåra. Den seier nemlig "http://ftp.fagskolen.gjovik.no/pub/tex-archive/language/hyphenation/nohyph/n...":
% Copyright (C) 2004, 2005 Rune Kleveland, Ole Michael Selberg. % Copying and distribution of this file, with or without modification, % are permitted in any medium without royalty provided the copyright % notice and this notice are preserved.
Takk! Det ser ut til at orddelinga kommer derfra.
Jeg har SVN lokalt på min maskin og tok noen enkle søk.
Jeg ser i fila Speling.org/src/spell-norwegian/ooo-hyph/README
----------------------------------
This are hyphenation files for OpenOffice.org made from Rune Klevelands nohyphbc.tex.
Follow the instructions on the openofficepage for installation.
Torstein Dybdahl torsted<at>runbox.no Licence is GPL.
---------------------------------
Det sier to ting, det ene er at det er den fila du henviser til, det andre er at lisensen er GPL, noe som ikke stemmer med den informasjonen som står i fila du viser til.
Noen som har historiske kunnskaper nok til å vite om det er en egen lisens (GPL) for denne fila som en del av ordlistene? Enten må da Kleveland ha gjort dette selv (noe som forklarer hvorfor Copying-fila ikke finnes der), eller vi/noen har innhentet tillatelse fra Kleveland? Hvis ja vet jeg ikke når eller hvordan denne copyright-informasjonen forsvant ...
Sender blindkopi til adressen som ligger i fila på fagskolens FTP, nemlig: tex-live (at) tug.org og til torsted<at>runbox.no (Vet ikke om de ennå virker). Innledningen på toppen er ment til dem.
Mvh Axel Bojer
Den 29. jan. 2012 18:19, skrev Axel Bojer:
Hei!
Vet ikke om denne e-posten når fram til Rune Kleveland, Ole Michael Selberg, Torstein Dybdahl e.a. med tilknytning til orddelingsfilene på norsk. Men om så er, kan mottaker gi beskjed om forholdet nedenfor (lisens for ordlistene som del av no.spelig.org/myspell).
Den 29. jan. 2012 16:48, skrev Karl Ove Hufthammer:
fr. den 27. 01. 2012 klokka 21.40 (+0100) skreiv Axel Bojer:
Bare for sikkerhets skyld: Jeg antar det er korrekt å si at orddelingsreglene har samme lisens som resten av ordlistene, altså «GNU GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE, Version 2, June 1991»?
Jeg har prøvd å finne informasjon i no.speling.org sin SVN, men finner ingenting som nevner orddeling eksplisitt. Dette er vel overtatt fra Kleveland i sin tid, noen som husker/vet?
Eg veit ikkje kva filer det er snakk om (og fann ingen nettsider som verka eg kunne lasta dei ned frå),
Ja, jeg ser at både no.speling.org og alioth for øyeblikket er nede :-(
men viss dei er basert på Kleveland/Selberg si orddelingsliste, er det alt eit grovt brot på lisensvilkåra. Den seier nemlig "http://ftp.fagskolen.gjovik.no/pub/tex-archive/language/hyphenation/nohyph/n...":
% Copyright (C) 2004, 2005 Rune Kleveland, Ole Michael Selberg. % Copying and distribution of this file, with or without modification, % are permitted in any medium without royalty provided the copyright % notice and this notice are preserved.
Takk! Det ser ut til at orddelinga kommer derfra.
Jeg har SVN lokalt på min maskin og tok noen enkle søk.
Jeg ser i fila Speling.org/src/spell-norwegian/ooo-hyph/README
This are hyphenation files for OpenOffice.org made from Rune Klevelands nohyphbc.tex.
Follow the instructions on the openofficepage for installation.
Torstein Dybdahl torsted<at>runbox.no Licence is GPL.
Det sier to ting, det ene er at det er den fila du henviser til, det andre er at lisensen er GPL, noe som ikke stemmer med den informasjonen som står i fila du viser til.
Fila Speling.org/src/spell-norwegian/nohyphbc.tex er ulik http://ftp.fagskolen.gjovik.no/pub/tex-archive/language/hyphenation/nohyph/n...
Førstnevnte inneholder den innledende kommentaren:
------------------------------------------- % Generated by a script written by Rune Kleveland % (runekl A opoint.com) from dictionaries availiable from % http://spell-norwegian.alioth.debian.org/ -------------------------------------------
Blindkopi også dit ...
Noen som har historiske kunnskaper nok til å vite om det er en egen lisens (GPL) for denne fila som en del av ordlistene? Enten må da Kleveland ha gjort dette selv (noe som forklarer hvorfor Copying-fila ikke finnes der), eller vi/noen har innhentet tillatelse fra Kleveland? Hvis ja vet jeg ikke når eller hvordan denne copyright-informasjonen forsvant ...
Sender blindkopi til adressen som ligger i fila på fagskolens FTP, nemlig: tex-live (at) tug.org og til torsted<at>runbox.no (Vet ikke om de ennå virker). Innledningen på toppen er ment til dem.
Mvh Axel Bojer
Hei Axel,
although I can understand Norwegian, I am a bit confused. The subjects speaks about Scribus, the body about hyphenation patterns for OpenOffice but is sent to TeX Live list. Does is mean that the hyphenation patterns are identical? Moreover, the license is not clear to me. The copyright notice requires "no modification" so that its category would probably be "nonfree" but another notice mentions GPL. Could you be more precise? And I am afraid that most subscribers of the TeX Live list do not understand Norwegian.
Hilsen Zdeněk
2012/1/29 Axel Bojer axelb@skolelinux.no:
Den 29. jan. 2012 18:19, skrev Axel Bojer:
Hei!
Vet ikke om denne e-posten når fram til Rune Kleveland, Ole Michael Selberg, Torstein Dybdahl e.a. med tilknytning til orddelingsfilene på norsk. Men om så er, kan mottaker gi beskjed om forholdet nedenfor (lisens for ordlistene som del av no.spelig.org/myspell).
Den 29. jan. 2012 16:48, skrev Karl Ove Hufthammer:
fr. den 27. 01. 2012 klokka 21.40 (+0100) skreiv Axel Bojer:
Bare for sikkerhets skyld: Jeg antar det er korrekt å si at orddelingsreglene har samme lisens som resten av ordlistene, altså «GNU GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE, Version 2, June 1991»?
Jeg har prøvd å finne informasjon i no.speling.org sin SVN, men finner ingenting som nevner orddeling eksplisitt. Dette er vel overtatt fra Kleveland i sin tid, noen som husker/vet?
Eg veit ikkje kva filer det er snakk om (og fann ingen nettsider som verka eg kunne lasta dei ned frå),
Ja, jeg ser at både no.speling.org og alioth for øyeblikket er nede :-(
men viss dei er basert på Kleveland/Selberg si orddelingsliste, er det alt eit grovt brot på lisensvilkåra. Den seier nemlig "http://ftp.fagskolen.gjovik.no/pub/tex-archive/language/hyphenation/nohyph/n...":
% Copyright (C) 2004, 2005 Rune Kleveland, Ole Michael Selberg. % Copying and distribution of this file, with or without modification, % are permitted in any medium without royalty provided the copyright % notice and this notice are preserved.
Takk! Det ser ut til at orddelinga kommer derfra.
Jeg har SVN lokalt på min maskin og tok noen enkle søk.
Jeg ser i fila Speling.org/src/spell-norwegian/ooo-hyph/README
This are hyphenation files for OpenOffice.org made from Rune Klevelands nohyphbc.tex.
Follow the instructions on the openofficepage for installation.
Torstein Dybdahl torsted<at>runbox.no Licence is GPL.
Det sier to ting, det ene er at det er den fila du henviser til, det andre er at lisensen er GPL, noe som ikke stemmer med den informasjonen som står i fila du viser til.
Fila Speling.org/src/spell-norwegian/nohyphbc.tex er ulik http://ftp.fagskolen.gjovik.no/pub/tex-archive/language/hyphenation/nohyph/n...
Førstnevnte inneholder den innledende kommentaren:
% Generated by a script written by Rune Kleveland % (runekl A opoint.com) from dictionaries availiable from % http://spell-norwegian.alioth.debian.org/
Blindkopi også dit ...
Noen som har historiske kunnskaper nok til å vite om det er en egen lisens (GPL) for denne fila som en del av ordlistene? Enten må da Kleveland ha gjort dette selv (noe som forklarer hvorfor Copying-fila ikke finnes der), eller vi/noen har innhentet tillatelse fra Kleveland? Hvis ja vet jeg ikke når eller hvordan denne copyright-informasjonen forsvant ...
Sender blindkopi til adressen som ligger i fila på fagskolens FTP, nemlig: tex-live (at) tug.org og til torsted<at>runbox.no (Vet ikke om de ennå virker). Innledningen på toppen er ment til dem.
Mvh Axel Bojer
2012/1/29 Zdenek Wagner wrote:
Hei Axel,
although I can understand Norwegian, I am a bit confused. The subjects speaks about Scribus, the body about hyphenation patterns for OpenOffice but is sent to TeX Live list.
The file with patterns says: % Please send bugs or suggestions to tex-live (at) tug.org. I guess this is the main reason why the mail was sent to this list.
Does is mean that the hyphenation patterns are identical?
Hyphenation patterns for Norwegian for OpenOffice come from TeX, like most patterns do. And most probably Scribus just takes patters from OpenOffice (I didn't check that).
See http://extensions.services.openoffice.org/project/Norwegian_dictionaries
The package for OpenOffice seems to contain only GPL licence (but it also contains spell-checker etc.)
But I don't speak Norwegian, so I'm not exactly sure what the discussion was about.
Moreover, the license is not clear to me. The copyright notice requires "no modification" so that its category would probably be "nonfree" but another notice mentions GPL. Could you be more precise? And I am afraid that most subscribers of the TeX Live list do not understand Norwegian.
You could also write to tex-hyphen (at) tug.org but please write in English ;)
A note to the original poster: TeX now uses patterns from http://tug.org/svn/texhyphen/trunk/hyph-utf8/tex/generic/hyph-utf8/patterns/... http://tug.org/svn/texhyphen/trunk/hyph-utf8/tex/generic/hyph-utf8/patterns/... http://tug.org/svn/texhyphen/trunk/hyph-utf8/tex/generic/hyph-utf8/patterns/... which is the mentioned file from CTAN (FTP link posted in your original mail), converted into UTF-8. We intent to clean up the licences one day. We never actually contacted any author (apart from the one who added two hyphenation exceptions is 2007 to differentiate between nn and nb).
Mojca
On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 11:30, Mojca Miklavec wrote:
2012/1/29 Zdenek Wagner wrote:
Hei Axel,
although I can understand Norwegian, I am a bit confused. The subjects speaks about Scribus, the body about hyphenation patterns for OpenOffice but is sent to TeX Live list.
For others on the TL list who might be confused, it might be more clear what the subject is about when looking at https://lister.ping.uio.no/pipermail/i18n-no/2012-January/007671.html http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=410093. http://bugs.scribus.net/view.php?id=5322
Mojca
Den 29. jan. 2012 23:37, skrev Zdenek Wagner:
Hei Axel,
although I can understand Norwegian, I am a bit confused. The subjects speaks about Scribus, the body about hyphenation patterns for OpenOffice but is sent to TeX Live list. Does is mean that the hyphenation patterns are identical? Moreover, the license is not clear to me. The copyright notice requires "no modification" so that its category would probably be "nonfree" but another notice mentions GPL. Could you be more precise? And I am afraid that most subscribers of the TeX Live list do not understand Norwegian.
Hilsen Zdeněk
Hei Zdeněk!
Thank you for your answer. I did not know, that the mailing address I wrote to was held in English -- I assumed it was in Norwegian because it addressed the Norwegian hyphenation files.
And, yes, we are confused too :-)
Similar files, both for hyphenations in Norwegian, are present both in http://ftp.fagskolen.gjovik.no/pub/tex-archive/language/hyphenation/nohyph/n...
and in the file
src/spell-norwegian/ooo-hyph/README
in the SVN at speling.org/alioth, which is down at the moment. ( http://alioth.debian.org/frs/?group_id=30577 )
But the first file states: % Copyright (C) 2004, 2005 Rune Kleveland, Ole Michael Selberg. % Copying and distribution of this file, with or without modification, % are permitted in any medium without royalty provided the copyright % notice and this notice are preserved.
and the second states:
This are hyphenation files for OpenOffice.org made from Rune Klevelands nohyphbc.tex.
Follow the instructions on the openofficepage for installation.
Torstein Dybdahl torsted<at>runbox.no Licence is GPL.
We are, just as you, wondering which one is the real thing, and which not. Or perhaps they *do* have different license, as they *are* a bit different, and Kleveland has worked on both projects, and may have released similar works under two different licences?
Do you have any ideas or suggestions? If not, we will explore into it by hearing from other people etc in the hope of getting a definite answer.
Best regards Axel Bojer
On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 22:31, Axel Bojer wrote:
Similar files, both for hyphenations in Norwegian, are present both in http://ftp.fagskolen.gjovik.no/pub/tex-archive/language/hyphenation/nohyph/n...
and in the file
src/spell-norwegian/ooo-hyph/README
in the SVN at speling.org/alioth, which is down at the moment. ( http://alioth.debian.org/frs/?group_id=30577 )
But the first file states: % Copyright (C) 2004, 2005 Rune Kleveland, Ole Michael Selberg. % Copying and distribution of this file, with or without modification, % are permitted in any medium without royalty provided the copyright % notice and this notice are preserved.
and the second states:
This are hyphenation files for OpenOffice.org made from Rune Klevelands nohyphbc.tex.
Follow the instructions on the openofficepage for installation.
Torstein Dybdahl torsted<at>runbox.no Licence is GPL.
We are, just as you, wondering which one is the real thing, and which not.
I can almost certainly tell that the one in TeX is the original one. (Not that I know anything about those specific patterns, but in 99% cases that was the order.)
Please note that the patterns you are linking to (from TeX) are now being replaced by hyph-utf8 package with patterns in UTF-8 encoding (but the source still remains exactly the same).
However, it is quite possible that the author agreed to relicence patterns for OpenOffice. At least that is what happened for Slovenian patterns. I don't know if there are any less strict Norwegians out there, but in my case I wasn't even allowed to be mentioned in the OpenOffice hyphenation patterns (not only as author which I'm not, but not even given the tiniest credit when I helped getting rid of the bug) without signing some legal papers first.
I would only like to make you aware of some tiny detail. Hyphenation patterns from TeX may not work 100% correct in OpenOffice. (Patterns from OpenOffice always work in TeX, but the reverse may not be true.) One needs to run a special script from OOo (substrings.pl) that "compresses" patterns in some way to make sure that all hyphenation points remain interpreted correctly.
See http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/SL/Using_TeX_hyphenat...
Or perhaps they *do* have different license, as they *are* a bit different, and Kleveland has worked on both projects, and may have released similar works under two different licences?
Do you have any ideas or suggestions? If not, we will explore into it by hearing from other people etc in the hope of getting a definite answer.
You might need to ask other people to get definite answers. In particular, you might need a confirmation of whether or not patterns have been explicitely relicenced for OOo.
Of course you can always use original patterns from TeX, but from what others say, LPPL might not be compatible with some other free licences out there (which might also be the reason why OOo people relicenced them).
Mojca
Mojca Miklavec wrote:
However, it is quite possible that the author agreed to relicence patterns for OpenOffice. At least that is what happened for Slovenian patterns. I don't know if there are any less strict Norwegians out there, but in my case I wasn't even allowed to be mentioned in the OpenOffice hyphenation patterns (not only as author which I'm not, but not even given the tiniest credit when I helped getting rid of the bug) without signing some legal papers first.
I would only like to make you aware of some tiny detail. Hyphenation patterns from TeX may not work 100% correct in OpenOffice. (Patterns from OpenOffice always work in TeX, but the reverse may not be true.) One needs to run a special script from OOo (substrings.pl) that "compresses" patterns in some way to make sure that all hyphenation points remain interpreted correctly.
See http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/SL/Using_TeX_hyphenat...
Licence issues leave me cold (except I wonder how many man-years of potentially productive time have been wasted worrying about such things), but I am intrigued by the following from the URL you cite :
Recent Hyphen version of OpenOffice.org 3 has a problem with UTF-8 encoded hyphenation patterns: it misses the first hyphenation break point in special circumstances (in LEFTHYPHENMIN positions before letters with diacritics, eg. "zaživeti" where the "zaži" does not get split). Consider the conversion of your UTF-8 encoded TeX patterns to ISO-8859-X code-pages (or KOI8-R).
Example: Slovenian language uses ISO-8859-2 code-page, so one would open the UTF-8 file in a code-page savvy text editor, then convert and save it as an ISO-8859-2 coded text.
Why might "Recent Hyphen version of OpenOffice.org 3 has a problem with UTF-8 encoded hyphenation patterns" Are Open Office moving /away/ from Unicode ?
Philip Taylor
Axel -- what problem are you trying to solve?
FWIW, this license statement:
% Copyright (C) 2004, 2005 Rune Kleveland, Ole Michael Selberg. % Copying and distribution of this file, with or without modification, % are permitted in any medium without royalty provided the copyright % notice and this notice are preserved.
is the standard GNU "all-permissive" text and is compatible with the GNU GPL.
karl