Re: [i18n-no] Norsk - Engelsk - Norsk ordbok

21 Jun 2006

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Hei,
En liten oppdatering:
Etter flere mailer idag til dicts.info, har jeg summert opp til følgende:
- - De har brukt freedict sin ordliste for å oppdatere sin egen,og den
inneholder som de sier a few thousand words
- - De blander lister, ved hjelp av synonymer, andre språks lister
osv... Hvis en følger linken som ble sendt i den siste mailen jeg
mottok: http://xdxf.revdanica.com/down/ Hvis du velger fra engelsk,
til norsk, får du opp 2 ordlister, på disse er den en copyright, og
ved å gå til nettsiden til copyrighten, kommer du hit:
http://www.freelang.net/dictionary/norwegian.html
og som dere ser... oppdatert sist dec 2002
Det jeg er litt opptatt av rundt det hele er:
- - Å få korrekte oversettelser, og da også for forskjellige situasjoner
hvor et ord blir oversatt til f.eks. i edb sammenheng, hva det betyr i
økonomi sammenheng osv....
- - At det skal være enkelt å få inn nye ord, og at nye ord skal kunne
lastes ned daglig, siden det kan legges inn prioritering på ord som
blir rapportert inn som "manglende"
- - Ved et tilsvarende system som no.speling har man oversettere, og det
vil bli nye bilag daglig.
F.eks. 1 mann, 10 ord daglig.. 3650 ord pr. år..... så... 12 mann 1,5
måned og du har en tilsvarende liste... Det er ikke så rare insatsen.
Jeg jobber videre med å se på muligheter for å "importere"
eksisterende lister, for å øke kvaliteten på disse, samt å ha et
utgangspunkt.
Under kan dere lese mailene til dict.info. og det virket ikke som de
var så veldig lystne på noe prosjekt... og enkelte spørsmål satte jeg
litt på spissen for å få svar.
Jeg er enig i endel av argumentene hans, men synes ikke det er den
"beste" måten å lage en "korrekt" ordbok på.
Kom gjerne med inspill her.
Tor Harald
Hello
Yes we tell people not to distribute our dictionaries with their
programs because after some time the net would be full of outdated
copies of our dictionaries and we could do nothing about it. So the
best way is to make a program compatible with our notation and tell
users where they can download the newest versions - no outdated dicts
in zip files on sites all over the net.
Some users asked us to add support for dict protocol but very few
users use linux and know how to use dict protocol.
There are only few thousand Norwegian Bokmal entries in our system -
if we would have larger input dictionaries we could add much more
entries. Small input dicts -> few entries in the universal dictionary.
We did not find a single Nynorsk dictionary so we were unable to add
any Nynorsk entries. But I still do not understand why do you have two
languages. Imagine that whole USA speaks English and almost whole
South America speaks Spanish.
When I say more than 40 Norwegian dictionaries I mean more than 40
Norwegian dictionaries they are here:
http://dicts.info/dictlist1.php?l=Norwegian_Bokmal
Right now you will create another dictionary on the right side of the
page. But if you would work with us each entry you would add would
increase the amount of complex entries of all Norwegian dictionaries
on the left side of the page. Are you sure you understand
how our Universal dictionary works? If you would like to create
English-Norwegian dictionary it would be wise to add Norwegian entries
next to English synsets of wordnet thesaurus. Because if you will
write the English words again you will lose a lot of time and never
create as good entries as wordnet has.
Trust me creating a dictionary is a lot of hard work. You will see
after few days ;-)
Zdenek
Tor Harald Thorland napsal(a):
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Hello,
It is not that I like your suggestion in making more
dictionaries... but there is some of my point's wich I cannot see
to work with that suggestion..

We cannot use it in a program for offline work/search. 2. It is

not that good proofread, so it might be more faulty. 3. The web
interface is the only way to use it.. 4. It does not cooperate with
the proofreading & building of both Norwegian Nynorsk, and The
Norwegian Bokmaal spelling lists, wich will make it possible to
make the same dictionary for both of the "languages"..
Best Regards Tor Harald Thorland
Btw. what do you mean with nearly 50 dictionaries.. out of 5
words..
We are not planning any other languages, only
Norwegian->English->Norwegian...
Ing. Zdenek Broz skrev:
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Hello
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We use dictionaries from many sources. Many our dictionaries are
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combined from more than one dictionary. We need word-word
notation
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in our bilingual dictionaries so some information is lost in the
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conversion of source data. I suggest using original dictionaries
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instead of our modified files. We use freedict Norwegian
dictionary
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and heinzelnisse.info German-Norwegian dictionary. You can get
the
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dictionaries from: http://xdxf.revdanica.com/down/
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http://heinzelnisse.info
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But I have to say again these are "only" bilingual dictionaries
if
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you would create entries like: 02064081-n -- dog; domestic dog;
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Canis familiaris -- bikkje; hund we would be able to add these
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entries into our system and everyone would have more than 40
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Norwegian dictionaries. You would be allowed to use them all in
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your projects. We have already about 6000 Norwegian entries in
the
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UD but they need to be edited so they are nice. It is also much
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less work editing this file then creating another bilingual
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dictionary (it took me 15 months to create English-Czech
bilingual
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dict and only 4 months to add Czech into the UD).
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So what do you think? Is it really good idea to create another
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English-Norwegian dictionary or lets get to work and create
nearly
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50 Norwegian dictionaries at once.
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Best regards
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Zdenek
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Tor Harald Thorland napsal(a): Hello,
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Thanks for your reply. There is already a thesaurus in
production,
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together with a Norwegian Bokmaal, and a Norwegian Nynorsk
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spelling....
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What we want to do is short described in: 1. To have the
dictionary
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proof, to remove misspellings. 2. To give the user a program with
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the option to send us the word not included in the dictionary,
for
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the translators to translate. 3. Give a update of the dictionary
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program everyday. 4. To get better quality, as using a thesaurus
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for translating doesn't always give you the best/most suitable
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words. 5. We want to supply a 100% Free & open source
dictionary &
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a program for getting/supplying the words.
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Also, the proofreading / adding of words is done on a daily
basis,
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the same way as we do it on our other projects.
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That is the reason, why I ask what type of licence there is on
the
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dictionary.... and how available it is.
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About the time perspective.. This is a everlasting project, just
as
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the other lists we are running.
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Brgds Tor Harald Thorland
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Ing. Zdenek Broz skrev:
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Hello
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It is great that you care about your language.
Instead of
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creating another English-Norwegian dictionary I
suggest
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creating something much more important than that.
Norwegian
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needs a thesaurus and a lot of dictionaries. We have
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developed a system which combines these two things.
Universal
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dictionary connects a language with all other
languages in
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the system and its entries are synonyms (so it is
also a
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thesaurus). Are you really interested in creating
something
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useful for all Norwegian users? How much time are
you
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prepared to spend achieving this goal?
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Best regards
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Zdenek Broz / Dicts.info
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------------------------------- Hello, My name is
Tor Harald
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Thorland.
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I'm currently looking into getting a better
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norwegian-english-norwegian dictionary.
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I wonder, the dictionary wich is in use on this
site, is it a
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collection from various places? Do you store the
whole
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dictionary?
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What I want to do is running a service like
no.speling.org
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They have a database with the words, and it is sent
out to
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translators/proofreaders. In that way, you'll get a
very good
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list of words.
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The reason why i'm sending this mail is that it is too bad
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to start translating from scratch again to get a good
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dictionary.
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This project will be totaly open source & free,
and will also
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include a application for requesting words for
translation,
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and a way to submit words wich are not translated.
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Brgds. Tor Harald
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Re: [i18n-no] Norsk - Engelsk - Norsk ordbok